The Leftovers

The Leftovers Season 3 Episode 3 Recap | Crazy Whitefella Thinking

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The Leftovers 2017: Season 3 Episode 3  - Crazy Whitefella Thinking

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The craziest whitefellas of podcasting (Josh Wigler (@roundhoward) and Antonio Mazzaro (@acmazzaro) are back to talk about this week’s episode of The Leftovers/Kevin Senior’s vision quest/some random dude on fire. Josh and Antonio also delve into matters of faith–where they lead us, what we might do in pursuance of them, and how one man’s faith is another man’s two boats and a helicopter.
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  • TrentC

    Antonio brought up the National Geographic magazine from episode 1.7. Is it the same magazine that he wraps the cash and paper in during this episode? If so, are we seeing a time travel segment that will ultimately hurt our heads if we continue to examine it closely?

    How did Kevin senior make the leap from the Itsy Bitsy Spider song to the Australian line song?

    Now we know Kevin senior advised Kevin junior about the well via drugs ‘n TV, can we assume that the supernatural aspect is real in this instance?

    It’s fascinating that Kevin senior believes in everything after experiencing little, and Kevin junior believes in nothing after experiencing everything. Kudos to the podcasters for highlighting this disparity.

    Left field observation – Meg placed a grenade on a school bus that did nothing. Meg also placed a few pounds of C4 on a bridge that did nothing. Then her and Evie ultimately got blowed up real good. (apparently…) Am I Lindeloffing thinking there’s more to this progression?

    p.s. – I thought the people building the boat were Grace’s adopted children as well. And were they deconstructing a funky colored home to build the boat or was I having a God’s tongue flashback?

    • Andiamo

      I once read an article where Damon Lindeloff said that since the Departure took 2% of the world’s population, a rough guideline they use is that about 2% of what goes on in the show can be attributed to the supernatural. I think this episode shows that in regards to the Hotel. It’s mainly based in reality with an element of the supernatural. My take away from this episode was that it explained a lot more about the non-supernatural part of the Hotel than it did the supernatural.

      We did find out that Kevin Sr. was in a Perth hotel and on God’s Tongue, but so far that’s all we know that links their experience. Something somewhat supernatural is happening I think, but if I had to guess it has to do with more of a shared dream space than a representation of purgatory that Kevin Sr. tapped in to. But I really don’t know. What do you think?

      Kevin said he started seeing Patti right after Lily arrives on the doorstep, and Nora moves in. One of the first things to happen in the Hotel is Kevin gets a delivery of Lilies to his door, and that”s when things really start going nuts for him. When Kevin opens the card it’s a Get Well Soon card (with a picture of a guy throwing a coin into a crumbling wishing well.) Then later he see’s his father on the TV, and Kevin Sr. asks if he got the flowers he sent him. Kevin says the card was blank, then his father says “It didn’t say Get to the Well?” I think this was in Kevin’s mind already since he was probably surrounded by flowers and Get Well cards when his mother was dying. His father then tells him to take her to the Well. Kevin asks “Who, Patti? What Well? I’m supposed to assassinate her” Kevin Sr. says “No, you’re not a f**king assassin.” I think this came right from the conversation we hear on the tape about John Hinckley attempting to assassinate Reagan. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, in this world, Patti is running for President.

      After following what Virgil tells him to do, which fails, Kevin changes course and merges the advice Virgil gave him with his father’s advice. He charts his own path to get out of the Hotel. This corresponds to the discussion about AAA on the tape.

      On the tape is also the Itsy Bitsy Spider moment. Kevin saw his father as a bit magical in that moment; he had the power to stop the rains with his singing. It bonded them. From Kevin’s perspective, he then incorporates that into the idea that singing is the key to reconnecting with his family. Kevin Sr. also centers the current concept of himself around this story. He needs to be the man that Kevin Jr. saw him as in the past, but now he needs to sing to save all of humanity from the rains, not just his son. I think that’s why he desperately wants to hold on to this recorded evidence of their past connection, but isn’t as interested in his relationship with Kevin in the present. Because the way Kevin saw him in the past is central to his current sense of himself.

      The fact that they went to Niagara falls is probably also why water plays so prominently in both Kevins stories.

      In the boat building scene they were taking apart the chapel that we saw in the photo album that Grace built with her family. Something seemed off about that scene to me too, because there’s a wide shot when he comes out of the house, and the lake isn’t in it, but maybe not.

  • GeekFurious

    I am not going to ask a question this week, though I have tons, but I’m going to wait… I’ll just leave this link and let you discuss what it means. 😉 https://imgur.com/a/VXN6j

    • @Wharfrat1625

      Reading my mind as usual dude.

    • Brendan Fitzpatrick

      Oh snap, good catch. Love it.

    • TrentC

      I had so many questions for this episode and you gotta post that??

      Nice catch GF, missed it completely. I guess the original 815 flight was out of Australia so is that Lindelof trolling the viewers? Or does it have some deeper connective meaning?

      I say it’s an aboriginal symbol used by Oceanic as their logo, and then possibly used on that building to signify some sort of loss?

      I’m going to strike out no matter how many theories I come up with.

      • @Wharfrat1625

        The further we dig into this one the more likely our heads are to explode.

        • TrentC

          I like it when a good TV series has a defined end point. BSG, Lost, Breaking Bad and now The Leftovers. They may not stick the landing, but it certainly prevents the Deadwood situation.

          Sometimes though it doesn’t feel like there’s enough. I would volunteer to have my head explode for another couple of seasons of this one.

    • 2thingsRinfinite

      I would assume it is just an Easter egg.

    • HomerBrannon1

      The event happened October 15 in Australia. That makes it 1015. But October was the eighth month in the Roman calendar. So that would make it 815.

  • Andrew Rowe

    And there you have it folks, Sr is snakebit.
    I thought there were some parallels to be drawn between Matt/Srs reference to the story of Abraham, who was willing to sacrifice his son and the man on the hill who riddled us this: would you kill a baby if it would cure cancer. Also maybe some foreshadowing to senior sacrificing junior to save the world. Could be nothing, but I think where there’s smoke, there’s a businessman fire.

    • Andiamo

      I wonder too if Kevin Sr. is going to make himself important by trying to use Kevin, maybe to bring comfort to Grace. In that way I could see him “sacrificing” Kevin, even though what Matt wrote about Kevin freeing the dead from their pain was baloney.

      • TrentC

        I have to apologize ahead of time, I needed to put this somewhere.

        My father passed away earlier today from complications relating to cancer. I won’t be posting here or on the Survivor website and wanted someone to know. I have enjoyed our interactions and again apologize for the seriousness of this note. Take care of yourself and the people in your life. Thanks Andi.

        • Andiamo

          I’m so sorry you’re going through that Trent. That’s just heartbreaking. Your presence will really be missed around here (not just by me, I’m sure.) I hope it’s not weird to say, but if you ever need a distraction and wanted to chat just let me know. I hope you take care of yourself. Sending love from Jersey.

          • TrentC

            Hi Andi. It was tough watching Survivor with Adam and his Mom because my situation was identical. I became the primary caregiver and then watching this show, there’s a lot happening with father and son, people trying to handle sudden departures, people making choices about life.

            I’ve watched more TV this past couple of years and posted more drivel online, than in the previous 10 years combined. The distraction has been shows like this, Rob’s websites and people like you. Thanks Andi.

          • Andiamo

            Hey good to see you! The Leftovers is almost too emotional for me (especially this episode), but I tend to have an existential crisis every morning before breakfast, so these topics always get me. I can’t imagine how heavy it must be watching it while you’re going through what you’ve been going through.

            Anyway, I hope you’re holding up okay. I’ve missed your witty, insightful, and occasionally obnoxious comments!

          • TrentC

            Obnoxious comments??

            Snookie how dare you!

  • Andiamo

    Is it bad that Kevin Sr.’s coopting of aboriginal culture/white savior complex made me think of this?
    https://youtu.be/BZ9pf62yASM

    • TrentC

      Hey you, I could have sworn there was a much larger post here from a user with a name similar to yours.

      Was it a flash sideways moment and I’m losing my mind?

      And thanks sooo much for putting indelible images into my brain. To answer your question. Yes it’s bad, very bad!

      • Andiamo

        Lol. No mystery there. I thought I was getting a little nuts with the “much larger posts” so I just got rid of it. There’s so much going in this show, and it’s all centered around the things I find most fascinating in the world, that I don’t know how to make shorter comments. So I thought I’d just be quiet and listen for a while instead.

        PS I know Joe and Kelly mean well, but this video, especially the pictures at the end, just gave me the ickies.

        • TrentC

          Good news, I wasn’t losing my mind yay!

          Yes I have the bad habit of instantposting my thoughts, often before listening to the podcasts. I tend to mirror at least one thought of the podcasters and look like a doofus doing it.

          My 2017 resolution was to listen first, then think, then post. 1 outta 3 ain’t bad..

          It’s funny. I enjoyed the Kevin senior scene when he donned the warpaint and danced, Joe and Kelly notsomuch. I can’t figure out the thrust of their new show Mana, so I guess I’ll just let the mystery be.

          • Andiamo

            Yup, not today, my friend. That was my fault. They did touch a little bit on what my deleted post was about in the feedback show. (Hey we both got questions mentioned, that was fun!)

            It was mostly about how the story about losing their wife/mother and the road trip tapes help make sense of both International Assassin and Kevin Sr’s current craziness. I’ll post it again if you’re interested and/or didn’t read it.

            I loved this episode, including the dance. But it was a pretty bumbling farce of cultural appropriation at its worst (best?) He even tried to kill his totem animal. Too funny.
            I’m gonna have to skip Mana too. I don’t really need to watch them tap into their inner power, but good for them. Really.

          • TrentC

            I’d like to see the post again if it’s not a hassle. Loved the episode as well.

            I got TWO mentions on the show *beams* 🙂

          • Andiamo

            I rewatched International Assassin, and I think the story of Kevin’s mother’s death and the road trip tapes feature pretty heavily in what’s going on in the Hotel, and also in Kevin Sr.’s current story. While I think there are definitely supernatural elements, my take away from this episode was that it’s Kevin’s real life story that helps explain the majority of his experience at the Hotel.

            Kevin said he started seeing Patti right after Lily arrives on the doorstep, and Nora moves in. One of the first things to happen in the Hotel is Kevin gets a delivery of Lilies to his door, and that”s when things really start going nuts for him. When Kevin opens the card that came with the flowers it’s a Get Well Soon card (with a picture of a guy throwing a coin into a crumbling wishing well.) Then later he see’s his father on the TV, and Kevin Sr. asks if he got the flowers he sent him. Kevin says the card was blank, then his father says “It didn’t say Get to the Well?” I think this was in Kevin’s mind already since he was probably surrounded by flowers and Get Well cards when his mother was dying. His father then tells him to take her to the Well. Kevin asks “Who, Patti? What Well? I’m supposed to assassinate her” Kevin Sr. says “No, you’re not a f**king assassin.” I think this came right from the conversation we hear on the tape about John Hinckley attempting to assassinate Reagan. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, in this world, Patti is running for President.

            After following what Virgil tells him to do, which fails, Kevin changes course and merges the advice Virgil gave him with his father’s advice. He needs to chart his own course to get out of the Hotel. This corresponds to the discussion about AAA on the tape.

            On the tape is also the Itsy Bitsy Spider moment. Kevin saw his father as a bit magical in that moment; he had the power to stop the rains with his singing. It bonded them. From Kevin Jr.’s perspective, he incorporates that into the hotel by making singing the key to reconnecting with his family. Kevin Sr. also centers the current concept of himself around this story. I think that’s why he desperately wants to hold on to this recorded evidence of their past connection, but isn’t as interested in his relationship with Kevin in the present. Because the way Kevin saw him in the past is central to his current sense of himself; The sole authority figure who can magically provide protection from the rains.

          • TrentC

            Some interesting callbacks in there thanks. I have to do a rewatch when the series is over. I forgot all about their conversation about the card for his Mom. Get well, get to the well, do I assassinate Patti? (no, but he ‘ends’ her just the same).

            To add, I found it intriguing that Kevin senior was angry at Matt for not including any of his spiritual moments in the book. He’s obviously had a few before this episode, but they haven’t shown many to us.

            I get a strong sense we’re going to see a large shift, much like the beginning of season four in Lost. (Going on memory and don’t want to spoil it for people that haven’t watched Lost yet. When Jack has the beard…)

            Someone may have brought this up already. It was interesting how in the outset of this season we were shown the Millerites, John and Laurie pulling the con, and what appeared to be the debunking of the dog theory. Three rather quick wipes on the dry erase board all saying – There is no mystery. I still haven’t got a sense if Matt’s wife has left yet.

            Part of me is dreading a huge shift along the lines of a M Night Shyamalan reveal. Actually, the 2% never vanished, 98% of the leftovers are actually dead right now. Okay, too much even for Lindelof.

          • Andiamo

            They have cleared some mysteries, like you said. Overall I don’t think this is really a mystery show in the same way Lost was. I think it will still center around the Kevin/Nora relationship. But Kevin is really the personification of the attempt to find religious meaning, and Nora is the same on the science side. And that science side has gotten short shrift so far.

            So I kind of agree with you about the Lost style shift, I just don’t know how they’ll finish everything in 5 episodes. First of all, Josh is wrong! I would bet my first born child that that was Penny again (who called Nora about the Australia details.) I think we’ll start to see the science side of things pick up. Maybe It’s crazy, but I think the Gov’t/Brevity might be involved in this radiation/lens theory. My guess is they’re using the data and the people for an entirely different purpose than was intended.

            Have you seen the ABC’s of the Sudden Departure? It’s a series of artwork HBO put out to go along with the show? I just discovered it a couple of weeks ago. I uploaded U is for Uranium. (Hey look, I can do pictures now!) Doesn’t that little box look like the radiation chamber? Know what else uses neutron radiation and terminology like “lenses” to help set off Secondaries? Nuclear bombs. (I also thought Nora/Sarah looked more like she had severe skin damage rather than just being 30 yrs. older, like Antonio raised last week.) It’s dark and twisted, but it fits.

            I’m wondering if Nora is Sarah because she’s hiding from the Gov’t. And if it ends on a more positive note, she and Kevin may be together, with him also hiding from the Messiah stuff.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2fcb451c5d03d07ae2ff125586befd5b08579a5293b74eee97dc10af9e68db59.png

          • TrentC

            That little box looks like an entrance to a bomb. Not very subtle is it?

            Interesting theories. I’m going to stick to the man of faith side of things and I would bet your first born that they’ll eliminate most of the mysterious aspects, do a pump fake making it look like science is behind everything, and then hit us with a mystery so large we’ll all lose our collective minds.

            I hope Nora is old and not radiated 🙁

          • Andiamo

            I kind of think the science vs. faith in this show are two sides of the same coin. They’re both attempting to find meaning by manipulating or filtering information to suit their needs. It’s not really mysterious, it’s still about humans trying to create meaning in a chaotic world, just using different avenues to do it. And then on both sides you have people trying to use that meaning to their own advantage.

            We’ve already seen two deaths in the name of faith. I expect we’ll see more in the name of science. I’m okay with you betting my first born through, because unless miracles are real, that ain’t happening.

            Denziger was the head of the commision in the pilot who was probably most faithful to actual science. He said the clusters (like Nora, Perfect Strangers cast, Brandenburg Carousel, etc.) were meaningless statistical hiccups (unlike the lens people.) Somehow his name got attached to the lens people though (LADR). In the ABC’s D is for Denziger. He’s shown in a suit with no shoes on. I don’t think they are throwing this all in as an aside.

            But if nothing else, the ABC’s of the Sudden Departure is some nicely done artwork that’s worth checking out if you like that kind of thing.

          • TrentC

            The Denziger/suit with no shoes picture moment is telling. I missed that the guy in the desert who burned himself and his car was dressed that way too. His question was to Kevin senior about killing one baby in order to save others was intriguing to me. Didn’t Kevin senior respond quickly and say no he wouldn’t do that? I think that scene is important in a lot of ways, even if it’s just an hallucination. I’m all over the place here with my response, but it’s that type of day.

            I was fishing with a comment about Meg and the grenade, Meg and the C4, and Meg and what next. Now we see another image of a bomb (hello again Lost…). I think we’re either going to love this writing crew or hate them in a few weeks. I’m betting it’s the former.

            Gotta roll W.W., take care.

            *Wonder Woman

            **hums old school Wonder Woman TV series theme cuz it’s badass