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The Leftovers Season 2 Episode 9 Recap | Ten Thirteen

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Smile! It’s 10/13 already! Do you have any plans for Heroes Day?

This week Josh Wigler (@roundhoward) and Antonio Mazzaro (@acmazzaro) discuss some of the darker forces in play for Heroes Day, namely the beautiful face of psychotic evil that came to the forefront this episode in the form of Meg. Plus, we got a jaw-dropping answer to a big mystery from this season, and Josh and Antonio break down all aspects of that, pulling in strands from throughout the entire run of the series to try and make sense of everything in play for the finale. They also get into a lot of your theories and comments regarding this episode, and what might be in store next week.

So no matter your plans, let this podcast be the walnuts in your salad (or your salad sans walnuts if you prefer) and, if you are so inclined, cast your stones in the comments below or through our feedback form.

LINKS FROM THE SHOW
** Damon Lindelof explains the big twist to Variety
** Alan Sepinwall breaks down just how awesome Liv Tyler was in this episode 

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  • Darren C

    Any chance you’ll do a live show after the finale next week considering there’s no more twd?

    • stephanie wanamaker

      YES!

    • I’d appreciate that too!

    • Dustyn Bindel

      Here, here!

    • Vera Lux

      Woohoo! Reaction show confirmed!

  • Ryan Oakley

    Everyone is assuming Meg wants to blow up the bridge. I think her obsession with needing to *see* the bridge means they’re going to hang the 3 girls (with the girls’ consent) in front of the town. Possibly foreshadowed with the extra ropes at the bridge from last week.

    • I don’t see how blowing a bridge would “change everything”. It must be something at the same level of the dolls in season 1. Something that make them remember what’s happened.

      • JCMac610

        If they did blow up the bridge though, it would change everything. The bridge is the only way in or out. Without the bridge, no one gets in, no one gets out and the GR could terrorize whoever is inside. Personally, I doubt this will be the case. I think the girls are going to hang off the bridge. Three ropes in Episode 8. Hard to say Garvey didn’t have a “religious experience” now if that is the case. How else would he know three ropes? If it were a psychotic break or fever dream, how would he know all of this (including Patty)? I doubt Laurie told him that much about Patty.

        • TrentC

          The earlier scene with the three GR captains accusing Meg of trying to procure plastic explosives. They must be going to blow something up. And I wonder what the hiker saw in the barn? Something serious enough to have him killed.

          Makes it seem like they’re going to blow something up, do or fake the hangings and then perhaps another large surprise we haven’t seen any evidence of yet.

          • Tom Palmer

            Isn’t it implied that the hiker saw the girls? If he told the town about it, they might be on guard when the girls help GR get into the town.

          • TrentC

            Oooh, good point I didn’t think about that.

            I kept envisioning a bomb or some sort of weapon, thanks.

          • Antonio Mazzaro

            I figured they meant the girls here too, but they could easily have meant something else. Not sure the hiker would get into the trailer. Maybe he would.

          • TrentC

            Yes it was little vague as they said – He saw what was in the barn. If it was the girls they were worried about him seeing that would mean the guy would have to be familiar with their story, what they look like and care about it. Very telling moment about Meg when she ordered his death as opposed to keeping him restrained for a day.

        • Antoni

          I think it is just a red herring the three ropes.

          • JCMac610

            Could not agree with you more. I am not a religious person, but I do watch this show from a religion view versus a scientific view. I don’t believe the Garveys’ are crazy.

          • stephanie wanamaker

            either do I

        • stephanie wanamaker

          agree think its something to do with bridge as its only way in or out and would change everything! surely evie can’t be delusional enough to agree to be hanged

          • Dustyn Bindel

            Dude, Evie’s gone.

        • Harriet Tubgirl

          I think there are two actions: 1. The girls hang themselves. 2. The explosives blow the wall keeping the riff-raff on the outside.

    • Or.. Meg and co are maybe going to stone those girls.

      • stephanie wanamaker

        no they have been stoning since the patty days ! this will make a big splash

    • TrentC

      If they hang the three girls I’m going to need a hug..

      • stephanie wanamaker

        me too

      • Harriet Tubgirl

        If the three girls hang themselves willingly, we’re all going to need hugs.

    • Petzl

      I don’t think killing the girls achieves the GR’s purpose. That just shows that humans are attempting to desecrate the still unblemished “miracle” of Jarden.

      Would not their purpose be better achieved by the girls permanent disappearance, “proving” that Sudden Departures can occur anywhere, even Jarden?

      Albeit, what I’m not understanding is– if the girls’ disappearance was entirely the work of the GR’s, and not supernatural, just how _did_ the river coincidentally drain on that same night?

      • JCMac610

        So here is my crazy thought… What if the GR already used the explosives? The explosives going off was the earthquake everyone felt which then drained the water. If the water, which was believed to be why Jarden and Miracle were special, removing it and three girls “departing” would make that town feel like they are not spared.

        Meg seemed really interested in the crack in the ground…earthquakes caused by fracking…Could the GR know about/built some sort of tunnel system, blew up the portion under the lake to drain it where they can collect the water and “own it”? There is a long deep trench in the empty lake. Could that be where the water drained from?

        I think I need to stop thinking and overanalyzing this show… LOL! I am dying for the Finale on Sunday!

        • TrentC

          That’s a great theory. They showed how precious the water was in the lake when it was being sold for big money. It would solidify the Dr Goodheart/water analysis/Evie being flirty with him connection.

          Making the water disappear would be exactly the type of terrorism Meg would commit. The GR may not need to own it, just remove the option of hope from other people.

    • Drew Douglas

      Yeah — that would be huge.

  • Tom Palmer

    Just caught up after listening to the recommendation podcast. Thanks guys!

    • It’s great to know you’ve just binged it through! Will it be my life-time favorite tv show? I really think so as of now.

  • Tom Palmer

    That reveal was brilliant, and having just binged season 2, I think it actually makes sense with that quiet scene with the girls in the premiere.

  • Tom Palmer

    When she stepped out of the school bus, how long did spend thinking it might explode?

    • John Mckinney

      I kept thinking it might explode until they cut to the next scene.

  • Did they mention something about the dogs in today’s episode? I didn’t really get that. I’m still curious about the identity of the guy who was hunting the dogs in season 1, what was all that about?

    • Yeah, I think whatever that was, Tommy might have felt the same as he saw the dog got left alone. He’s ditched by his own family and the society probably because of his own choice, intentionally or not intentionally. Maybe most individual in the society of the world of the Leftovers somehow feel the same.

  • Is knowing the girls are alive enough evidence that Patti was only in Kevin’s head? She told him the girls were departed.

    • I think you got it. However I want to believe that what happened in international assassin was not just Kevin’s hallucination.

      • Kristina Purcupile

        Me too! And I still don’t think it is in his head. Just because Patti told him they just vanished doesn’t concretely imply they departed. A lot of people in history have “faked” their deaths or kidnappings that routinely are described as people simply “vanished”. Let’s not forget Mary who seems to be trapped between the hotel/place Kevin went and her physical body in Jarden.

        • We often hear stories of people who ‘nearly’ died and miraculously came back to life; some of them claims that they have seen afterlife. whether it’s true or not, I think what Mary is shown to be experiencing is very similar to that.

    • stephanie wanamaker

      was wondering that too

  • TrentC

    Only The Leftovers could make a smiling Liv Tyler the most terrifying woman on Sunday night TV.

    • stephanie wanamaker

      well said

      • stephanie wanamaker

        hottest villain ever but more terrifying than patty and john combined

  • Robert Lainhart

    Another fantastic episode! I want to know what your thoughts are regarding Meg’s ringtone. It was sounds of a cricket. Thinking back to the first episode, do you think that the cricket noise in the Murphy house was Meg contacting Eve? Maybe Eve had the same cricket sound on her phone to alert her when Meg sent a message?

    • TrentC

      Good (re)call on that one. Plus one for the theory.

    • JCMac610

      I love this theory, but if I recall correctly, don’t we hear the cricket at the end of the episode? Erika sitting in the living room, processing her daughter’s disappearance and the cricket sound? We know Evie’s phone was in the car. I think it would be brilliant if it were her phone. Whenever someone suggests silence, you hear crickets and the GR is silent.

  • Jeremy

    What do you guys make of Isaac’s seemingly knowing what Meg’s mothers last words to her were? For a show that does such a great and deliberate job of keeping the faith/science dichotomy so ambiguous, this scene really seems to come down heavily on the side that there really is something supernatural going on in Miracle, and with Isaac in particular. In scenes like this in the past, Lindeloff normally gives just as many logical answers as supernatural ones, but I can’t find any logical reason how Isaac would know this information. Do you have any scientific or logical explanation for how Isaac would know what Meg’s mother’s last words were?

    • stephanie wanamaker

      no i thought it was particularly impressive he knew about the walnuts too I think Isaac is the real deal just as holy wayne was fake

      • It seems like holy wayne was not the real deal. However,.. however though.. if it was holy wayne who confronted Meg, I am 99.9999% sure that he could have knocked her down immediately, seeing her pain, feeling her pain right away. Tommy is a fake, a real fake.

      • Drew Douglas

        I think that’s the idea. There are prophets and there are fakes. You have to decipher which are real or not.

        Up until Tommy and his mom did the fake hug thing — I honestly believed Holy Wayne could do what he could do. Maybe that’s just because I wanted to believe it was true.

        I was disappointed when Tommy’s story was all BS.

    • TrentC

      I don’t think there is a logical explanation as he had just met her. When Meg walks out of his place towards her boyfriend, the look on her face appeared to be a form of stonefaced anger/evil. Then she relaxes and tells him the guy was a another fake. Great scene and as you mention, points towards Isaac being the real deal.

    • Tiffany

      I think he’s the real deal. Also he warned that people’s last words when they die unexpectedly are often not the nicest so I assume the mother was planning on saying something nasty to Meg about her/her fiance. Meg had searched for years for answers as she thought her mother had said something profound and beautiful and it flopped. So now she’s in eff the world mode.

    • He is freaking the real deal! I’d love to know what he told her.

    • Drew Douglas

      I think Isaac was the real deal. Virgil was too. There can be supernatural elements in this show but not every weird thing in life has to be supernatural-related.

    • John Mckinney

      I think that the scientific take goes something like this. Meg had visited a number of psychics as evidenced by her fiance/boyfriend’s reaction upon learning she was visiting another one. She had probably heard of Isaac through word of mouth and it’s conceivable that she scheduled an appointment with him. Couple how busy he was in the first episode of the season with the fact that she’s traveling nearly two thousand miles to see him and it’s not a stretch to think she would plan ahead. Also consider that Meg asks him if he needs a palm print and he says something to the effect of “no, you’re not here to know your future,” further indicating they may have previously discussed an appointment. I think if you take those things into consideration, Isaac could have conducted background searches on her to brush up on what happened and even contacted the restaurant and ask questions there. Did this happen? I don’t know, but I think the ambiguity of it all is what makes this show so great.

  • Although Evie lived in Miracle where no departure happened, I think she was just as broken as everyone else because she kept looking at those broken-hearted people visiting the town to feel better but only end up disappointed and depressed. And probably that’s why evie and co joined the GR.

    • stephanie wanamaker

      they were brainwashed into believing meg’s hype

      • The cricket sound was really horrifying really.. I really want to know how Meg approached her.

    • JCMac610

      I think her father’s opinions probably helped. Their town was taking advantage of people desperate for something…an answer…a token to take home so they could feel safe and be happy again. He either threatens, beats up, or burns the houses down of specifically the people making a fortune off other peoples pain. I guess I am not really surprised she would get jaded by it too and become an easy target for the GR to recruit.

  • stephanie wanamaker

    i think that is awesome seeing how was evie was pretty sure her father was never going to find the cricket

    • Oh, my, gosh, to this point, I was not able to come up with this idea! Totally! Totally! It was Meg making phonecalls to Evie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • stephanie wanamaker

    the weakest of last 4 episodes but still better than anything else on tv! i think meg looks patty and john look like saints ! they don’t threaten to blow up kids on a school bus or rape people i love damon’s obsession with olivia newton john music and the song white lines was appropriate considering what meg was doing right when her mother died I think #violenceisweakeness is a great hashtag for this episode

    • I really liked international assassin. Although I liked all other episodes of season 2, Kevin’s last episode was the only one that I could go rewatch again. The other episodes, they are just hard to watch again. I kind of agree with you this episode being the weakest, there are so many scenes I liked, Of those, my favorite was when Meg found out that Tommy’s family moved to Miracle, I cannot just forget that moment she started to smile and laugh with that background music going on. Just great!

      • stephanie wanamaker

        yes she is terrifying when she gets good news! yes the international assassin was the most fun episode! agree some episodes are too hard to watch again

  • JCMac610

    I read on Reddit someone speculating about the bus scene and that Meg did it so that the kids would think they were going to die and by not dying, they would be changed by the experience. She didn’t kill anyone, but she made them feel unsafe. It made me think about that scene in Fight Club. Tyler grabs the convenience store guy. His gun is not loaded, but the clerk doesn’t know that. He wanted to make the guy grow from the experience for the better. Near death experience, life spared, the world will suddenly look beautiful tomorrow and you will have a new perspective to live life to its fullest and appreciate the little things. Meg appears to be using the same technique, looking for different results.

  • WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • TrentC

    ‘I wanted to get you pregnant’.

    Any theories for that Megism?

    • Antoni

      Just messing with Tommy’s brain, I hope. Probably not, probably he will puke out Baby Jesus next episode.

    • omegabob

      She did get him pregnant. She planted the seed in him to come seek her out.

      • TrentC

        Good point. Josh on the podcast called it impregnating him with some of her ideas.

  • GeekFurious

    Lindelof loves to hide things in plain sight. So whatever Meg plans to do, seems obvious but isn’t… until we see it executed, and then we will be like “OH OF COURSE THAT’S WHY she needed the explosives, the girls, and to stone that guy who wandered on the property (instead of just leaving him tied up until the plan was completed).”

    I think Meg has told her flock one plan but has something in mind even they aren’t fully aware of.

  • Hey! If the girls are alive, does this prove that Kevin’s world was real since they weren’t there?

  • Tom Palmer

    This was an interesting episode for Man of Science vs. Man of Faith Debate. On the one hand Isaac seems pretty legit, but on the other hand we now know definitively that there wasn’t a 2nd Mini Departure.

    • So true. They always come up with equivalent amount of science vs faith deal.

  • Rhythm of Wisdom

    Anyone notice how the becoming the head of Mapleton Guilty Remnant chapter seems to make you one tough cookie? Patti seemed to have transformed for the worse/better (depending on your perspective) through her GR leadership and so did Meg. Maybe Laurie would have too had she hadn’t exited after the fire at the end of season 1. Examples of power corrupting those who claim to lead a higher, supposedly noble cause?

    • Tom Palmer

      I think Meg was always destined to become like this. There were signs of her wanting to use violence back in Season 1 when she was bashing on Matt.

  • John Cockerill

    So this episode we found out what happened to the missing girls. Did this episode shed any light, to the scene from the premiere, of the girls running naked through the woods? I havent been able to make any connections as of this episode. Thoughts?

    • Antoni

      Practicing the escape??, read on vulture on something like that.

    • Andiamo

      The answer I read that makes sense to me is that they were spreading their scent to throw off the dogs. This way they wouldn’t be traced to the farm. Explains why they were naked too.

  • Antoni

    Wow the amount of comments and buzz on this one ! I liked it, first episode I didn’t love, because I find it hard to like Megan or Tommy. Though it is just me, the acting is great and the directing was fantastic, thrilling. as always. The twist was great, caught me off guard, the girls were indeed silent in the car which some people found eery, but I just dismissed as I guess I had a terrible , silent car-riding childhood. The season finale is setting up to be epic, more epic than anything in TV the last couple of years. I think going back to Breaking Bad or ep. 9 of GoT season 3. Love Matt, oh how great was that conversation. “I wanted to get you pregnant” was Megan f*cking with Tommy again… I hope. Umm… loved Miracle from the past, the Tower guy being the reason for Mary’s reappearance can be dismissed now. Oh, crap i guess I loved the episode because in retrospect Megan was very interesting in this one. I just want to hate her but her voice is just so velvety smooth that I fell in love just like Tommy. I probably can’t dislike him now that I am as weak as he is.

    Questions :
    How do you think the Guilty Girls twist is gonna resolve ?
    What Is Matt going to do ?
    Why doesn’t the police stop the GR ? I mean seriously, they throw grenades into School Buses, that is probably illegal.
    Why did the girls join the GR ? …Never mind, Its pointless.

    • Good questions… why the police doesn’t stop the GR?
      Another question… where do they get money from? none of them seems to work or have any cash producing assets.

      • Antoni

        thx… Well, it was established last season they bully their members into giving all they have, I guess they are still able to lure in people and that keeps them going.

    • I don’t think it’s going to be the GR’s ultimate success but I’d like to think that Matt will come up with something in tur.. or probably Kevin, Nora, or any character in the show. It’s not only the GR who were dealing with the departure. Many people in that world were spending the exact same amount of time dealing with it personally or as a society. They would never find the perfect answer for whatever they are struggling with but I think they have grown up. Kevin clearly went through a lot of things including the what happened in episode 8, Matt, of course, is a living remider to Meg (that was badass of him by the way), Nora has been really strong, and so on.

  • I wonder what is the connection with the prehistoric bit in the first episode of the season. If it is the last episode, it must be connected somehow… any theories?

    • Dustyn Bindel

      I think they will connect it. Not sure how…

    • Andiamo

      The prehistoric bit seemed to have a lot more meaning in the alternate world/Kevin’s dream than it has in this world. With the Orphan’s Well and Patty’s comment that on the day of the departure “our cave collapsed”, it seemed like a myth or origin story for that world. How or if it will manifest in this world, I don’t know, unless the references to it in the last episode are just meant to show how thin the line is between the real world and the spirit world in the Axis Mundi that is Jarden.

  • Ryan Oakley

    Also I’ve found my favourite theory regarding the 4 costumes from last week – it’s how he chose to deal with Patti. He could FORGIVE her (priest), he could SIDE WITH her (guilty remnant), he could deal with her LAWFULLY (policeman) or he could KILL her unlawfully (assassin).

    • Episode 8 was already plenty ambitious, but how ballsy and brilliant would it have been if Damon wrote and shot 3 different episodes (without any kind of heads-up) and aired them in 3 different time zones, maybe even a 4th (saving the one we saw) in Hawaii. Each episode would depict what would have happened if Kevin chose each outfit.

    • stephanie wanamaker

      omg i love that theory! that is totally what Kevin would do

    • TrentC

      Great theory Ryan, was it yours?

      • Ryan Oakley

        If only I was that creative! Found it in a Youtube comment.

        • TrentC

          Honesty lol! I don’t read other columns on The Leftovers, just usually watch the show, come here and then listen to the podcast.

          Josh and Antonio did mention that Sepinwall (TV columnist) mentioned Meg being scary when she smiles…I’m mad because he lifted my comment from here :)

    • JyaddaYadda

      Super interesting theory, and what I found interesting/compelling/awesome about the episode is that, when I watched it, I had a completely different take on the outfits/”adorn yourself accordingly” than a lot of people had, but that doesn’t make me or them wrong.
      My take on it was less exciting than others. I thought when Kevin was choosing an outfit (or who he was), he did more of a process of elimination. *Kevin inner dialog* “I’m not religious, so I’m not wearing the priest outfit. I’m sure as hell not wearing the GR getup. I don’t want to be a cop right now – I left Mapleton and my status as a cop behind. I guess I’ll wear this suit”. And to me, that process was kind of strengthened by Virgil being the one to tell him what/who he actually is (“Look at the way you’re dressed man…. you’re an international assassin.”), as well as his father tell him “you’re not an assassin!”. He didn’t know know he was an assassin – he had to be told. What I saw was that, at the beginning of his journey on S2E8 International Assassin, Kevin didn’t know who he was.. he only knew who he wasn’t. And if that’s true, what was he at the end? Maybe we don’t know yet. . .

  • GeekFurious

    I have read several theories & feel that they may all have some validity but in the end I still believe Lindelof will surprise us. I can see the girls hanging from the bridge, but wouldn’t them appearing validate everything the people in the city believe? That their town is special? Wouldn’t that go against Meg’s plan? Granted, I say that not knowing her end-game.

    I can see the girls setting off the explosives inside Miracle, perhaps because they are believed gone for good, no one would suspect them as the suicide bombers and be unable to tie it back to the GR. That would explain why Meg had the trespasser killed.

    Whatever is going to happen, it has to be something Meg believes will cause either the destruction of Miracle or the invasion of the town by the people waiting outside (or both). I don’t see how just being destructive, or just hanging the girls off the bridge would change much of anything. Meg is an extremist. It’s not enough to troll. It’s not enough to shock. She wants to watch the world burn.

    • JCMac610

      I think the town will see the girls. In the promo, John and Erika are screaming “EVIE!” over and over. Whether they hang or something else, I think they will appear. I also think the GR is going to “open the doors of the town.” It won’t be exclusive. Everyone will file in. Meanwhile, Nora dropped $3Million on that house. I doubt she will make any of it back if they decide to bail and start over elsewhere.

      I agree with you about Meg too.

    • Andiamo

      I think the girls may be used as a diversion while the GR plants explosives in Miracle. She reiterated that Miracle is the national park that protects the special properties of the town. It could be that she destroys the park to expose the town for what it is. Whatever it is, I agree that she’s interested in more than just getting in and recruiting more people from the town.

  • Reni

    A lot of things already being discussed here, so I just want to say I feel really sorry for Tommy. We know that even pre-departure he had
    drinking problems and massive abandonment issues, trying to visit his
    biological dad and getting in fights with him etc. He desperately tried
    to fill this void inside him, and the departure probably just made it
    much worse. Meg is totally right when she says that he wants a family,
    to belong. I think he is the complete opposite of his stepdad. Kevin
    tells himself that he wants to be with his family, that he loves Nora
    and Lily and Jill, but deep down it’s not enough for him. Tom tells
    himself that he doesn’t want to be with his family and keeps tearing
    himself away, but the truth is he needs them and wants them.

    • OK. Got it. Abandonment is the main theme for Tommy in this episode and over the whole series in general. He saw that dog being abandoned right? But I’m not sure if Tommy and Kevin are representatives of opposite of each other, because I think Kevin’s problem is more focused on responsibility, responsibility as a cop, responsibility as a dad and a husband that he once failed at. Kevin of pre-departure had different problem, that he felt he had no purpose in the life. I’m not sure if there’s any connection between the two different problems, but I’d really love to know that.

    • Dustyn Bindel

      Tommy deserves our pity, sure. But is he really dumb enough to tell a rapacious villain where his family resides as her eyes light up?

      This wasn’t my favorite episode. The POV tool has been used to great effect, but all this Meg catch-up seems to be an all too convenient way for her to end back up in Miracle. She just so happened to visit Miracle months after the departure and just so happened to visit the psychic in whose house the Garveys now reside? Now it’s an argument of faith vs psych vs fate? I would hope not…

      • Edwin Johnson

        I don’t think it’s far fetched for those strings to tie together through coincidence, fate or otherwise. Miracle is a famous place in this world. Meg had clearly visited psychics before. The Garveys hoped to capitalize on any special properties of the town.

      • John Mckinney

        Meg visited Miracle two years after the Departure and the Garveys don’t live in Isaac’s old house – his house burned down.

        • Dustyn Bindel

          Right. They were about to move there.

          Where do you get the timeline that it was two years after the Departure?

          • John Mckinney

            I believe Isaac asks her how long it’s been or she otherwise mentions it when they meet.

          • Dustyn Bindel

            Wow. Didn’t realize that. Her bitterness isn’t that fresh then.

            But it takes Jarden 2 years to become the Miracle tourist trap? Because on the bus, the officer in uniform on the intercom says that they had just gotten started taking visitors like that. Would have thought that it wouldn’t have taken as long to catch on or for Jarden to catch on to cash in on it…

          • John Mckinney

            It’s right at the 10 minute mark. Isaac comments on how her mom died the day before the departure and she responds by saying, “it was two years ago so I’m all right.”

            Meg seems fairly genuine in that scene and the scenes leading up to it, even calling Miracle special. It’s only after her visit with Isaac and the subsequent interaction with Evie does she seem to sour and become bitter. She kept holding out hope that her mom’s last words would bring the peace for her suffering. She becomes sour because she falsely believed that the words would help or this town could heal her. Bitter, because even a teenager could see the town for what it really was.

  • I have some more questions:

    Why did Meg have to drug herself up two times already? Was it to keep smiling while being with her mom? Then what is her problem? Is it related to her childhood?

    What do you think the psychic told her?

    Mag maybe doesn’t have faith in men because of her father-in-law who left her a year after he adopted her?

    Do you think Mag showed her soft spot in the club or was it just another move to bring him into the guilty remnants?

    Do you guys agree that the guy who got stoned resembles Tommy in a lot of ways? the look, what he did to be eventually stoned, and so on.

  • Kristina Purcupile

    Meg and Matt’s conversation in the camp outside Miracle was too good! When he told her he was only trying to wake her up, and be her living reminder…so ironic! Meg is the anti-Matt! She is completely evil and spite-driven-whereas he is the constantly tortured Christian that can’t seem to get ahead despite his faith and actions.

    • Absolutely loved the Matt convo. I think he totally nailed it by reminding her of the anniversary. But I’m wondering about his pause when Meg told him that he needs her.

    • by the way, Meg was the most attractive in this episode. `Meg at her best`

  • Dustyn Bindel

    (^aka @footy_fetish <– Is it soccer-related? Is it indicative of personal prerogatives? Am I Lindelofing you in deliberate ambiguity? :P Thanks for getting to my question last week!)

    I'm not so quick to believe that the girls will be hanged or the bridge will be blown up. That alone's not big enough for the GR especially for Meg's GR; that does nothing to up the ante from the Loved Ones dolls stunt of Season 1.

    What i predict will happen is that Meg will use the 3 girls to stage some fake miracle for the Jardenians using Evie and co., abusing the town's likelihood to perpetuate Miracle's splendor with their foolish and reflexive propensity to believe or their dependency on pre-departure routines. Then, Evie and co. does something drastic to harm the town under Meg's direction. Or Kevin and Nora save Jarden. Bridge and hanging might have something to do with it, but that alone isn't enough.

  • Antoni

    Breaking Bad: Walter White took over the underground in 1 year. Megan in being radical had the appeal to do the same.

  • omegabob

    Just starting this week’s podcast (so I dunno if it will be brought up & dont think I read any comments below about it) but I wanted to quickly mention the scene where Meg is having her “meeting” with the other GR higher-ups. I believe when they mentioned the C-4 to Meg, there is a flash frame to the missing girl’s trailer on the bridge.

    I dont have any real theories about what will happen; but just for the fun of guessing:

    The initial incident with the C-4 and the fake grenade on the school bus (BTW – the 2nd time a fake grenade had it’s pin pulled in the series) was just practice runs for Meg’s GR. Since their goal was to make people remember, the town is in the way of their message. While scouting the location (not portrayed on-screen), Meg encounters (or searches her out) Evie again and ends up recruiting Evie and her friends. Since the pilgrims think the water is special, Meg destroys that first, probably with the C-4. At the same time, the girls stage their disappearance causing some of the townsfolk & pilgrims to doubt about the town being Departed-free (it works on Erika, right?). All this builds up to the next anniversary of Oct 14th where the undercover GRs stage something… maybe a diversion on the bridge? Whatever happens, the trailer with the girls in it is brought across the bridge and exploded with the C-4 (remember the training runs I mentioned). The bridge breaks, collapses and forms a make shift ramp for all the pilgrims waiting in the campsite to rush into the town causing chaos (like in the season 1 finale). I’m not sure if the girls are revealed (to her parents etc) to be in the trailer before it explodes.

    • Vera Lux

      Yeah, everything seems to be pointing to at least part of the episode centering around the encampment getting into the town. But there is definitely going to be more or that could be all a diversion.

    • I like your thoughts! I remember that particular scene catching my eyes too and I had to go back a little to see that frame again. And also similar scene appears during Meg & Matt’s converstion if I remember correctly, right?

      • Andiamo

        We have all been thinking that the outsiders will get into Miracle, but is it possible it’s the other way around? In the scenes for next week we see Nora, Lily, Matt and Mary all in the encampment. Possibly Meg gets explosives into the town and everyone has to flee? I could see her using the girls on the bridge as a diversion while she destroys the town, and with it any idea of safety. Or maybe not, but it’s fun to think about.

        • maybe Meg set the `Dogs` free (remember what one of the GR head mentioned) into the town and they had to flee? It’s amazing.

  • TrentC

    Antonio was under the weather and Josh had some personal stuff going on and you still got the podcast done. Cheers guys and thanks.

    The earthquake during the opening episode, the lake getting drained, the gas mains blowing up during the Departure. There sure seems to be a lot of underground stuff going on in Texas. Seems to be some widespread geological issues as the gas mains blew up in a few places across the country according to the story.

    Sad cause I can’t make it to the live finale podcast this weekend. I’m in the Siberian time zone so I don’t see the show until a couple of hours after eastern time. Happy because I recruited three friends to the Guilty Remnant society of watchers and they really like the show.

  • JyaddaYadda

    So, throughout the season, it has seemed very likely that the girls “departed”, or left due to something supernatural, with that theory strengthened by Kevin appearing in a drained lake, following a large earthquake, around the same time frame that the girls vanished. And then Patti was there, was able to tell Kevin where his missing phone was. And while all of that may not have made it very likely that the girls departed or something supernatural happened, it did, at least, make it plausible.
    Now we know that the girls are with the GR. So what is the significance of the large earthquake, the water disappearing/the lake draining when Kevin was in the midst of a suicide attempt? Supernatural/mystical basis with that, or just the craziest coincidence of all time that the lake drained right as Kevin was attempting suicide in the midst of sleep walking, which also happened to be the same night the girls “vanished” and went to hide out with the GR..?

    • Andiamo

      Seems pretty strange that Kevin was also wearing all white when he woke up in the lake. I’m wondering if “sleep Kevin” had something more to do with the girl’s disappearance than even he knows.

      • JyaddaYadda

        Good point! And Meg immediately knew who Kevin Garvey was when she and Tommy were talking… hmmmm….

        • Harriet Tubgirl

          Meg met Kevin in Mapleton when he was looking for Jill on the night when the remnants pulled their doll stunt and the riot ensued.

          • Harriet Tubgirl

            Also, wasn’t she there for when Kevin signed the divorce papers?

          • Andiamo

            I don’t remember Meg being there then. That was Nora. That’s when their whole flirtation started. But you’re right that Meg would know who Kevin was. She was well aware of Laurie’s situation with her husband and daughter.

      • Sleep Kevin is a member of GR! Pretty likely!

  • Cory

    So… those ratings.

    I lived with the cancellations of Firefly, Veronica Mars, and more. But to lose The Leftovers would be heartbreaking.

    If they cancel The Leftovers, I think I’ll just wear all white and silently smoke cigarettes on HBO’s property. Anyone else with me?

    • Drew Douglas

      It hit a season high this past Sunday. There’s so much critical and fan buzz about this season that I feel like HBO will give it another season and hopefully put it with a more popular series or place it in the Spring or Summer.

  • Charles Bikle

    I believe that Evie & the girls WERE kidnapped by the Guilty Remnant and are sympathetic to them due to brainwashing or Stockholm Syndrome.

  • Charles Bikle

    Hey Josh & Antonio, thanks for the heads up on The Leftovers, I’ve liked the series overall, with a few thoughts listed below as bullet points.

    – Surprised to hear that people don’t like the Guilty Remnant – I think they always make for a great visual and make for good villains.

    – liked “International Assassin” even though it felt like a filler episode or a firebreak episode to end the Kevin-Patti storyline, which I have not been a fan of.

    – Also not a Tommy fan; the character seems like a pinball, that bounces off from one story arc to the next. I could easily see him dying in the finale, as the showrunners don’t seem to know what to do with the character.

    – My first thought on the “cavewoman prologue” was that we were getting a glimpse of the place where the “departed’ went to, but from your comments on what Lindelof has said, probably not.

    • I always love to talk about Tommy’s role in the series. Although many viewers are not satisfied with the character, it is pretty realistic to have a character like him in this kind of show.

      • Charles Bikle

        Whether it’s Holy Wayne, his mom or Meghan, Tommy seems to wind up getting disillusioned from whatever cult he happens to be a member of, that week. Also, I feel that the showrunners have to dumb down other characters for Tommy’s sub plot to work. Meghan brought Tommy into the compound, wander around and allowed him to see just enough, so that he could screw up her plans.

        • I can’t really see tommy screwing her plans but i think he’s rather a witness, he always has been a witness in a certain way.

  • Vera Lux
  • Omega Kin

    Meg hated the happiness.

    It would be funny if Regina King’s character ran up to her daughter and grabbed to try to spank her for running away once she sees her on the bridge.

  • Omega Kin

    And I think people who watch the show hating the Guilty Remnant is the show actually doing it’s job. Because the remnant what people would hate in real life about a group of people like that.

    • Yeah whenever I hear how they don’t like the GRs in the show I say of course! of course! it is exactly what they are supposed be!

    • Harriet Tubgirl

      I agree, but I also understand people’s reactions. It’s the problem of the imitative fallacy. Writers don’t always want to have the reader/viewer feel exactly what the characters are feeling. Characters should be repulsed by the GR, not viewers. For every viewer, the threshold is different. We here seem to have a high repulsion tolerance.

      • John Mckinney

        I think that’s what the 1st season did so well. It made you feel the despair and pointlessness that comes with the departure of 140M people. While hard to watch and feel at times, I think we as viewers have been rewarded for sticking with it.

  • Drew Douglas

    I haven’t listened yet — sorry guys — but what are the theories on why do all the GR heads appear to all be women??

    • Harriet Tubgirl

      I wonder about that. Could it have been established by women as a matriarchy, or is the GR something that just attracts a larger female membership? There are male GR, but they do appear outnumbered. Mostly, they function as bouncers. This is one mystery we’ll likely never get an answer to.

      • Probably. I’m not trying to be sexist here but sometimes somethings are clearly attracting more of the other side than another. Some of these may have been built up gradually along the history of human society and their perspetive of gender role, but some things are clearly out of this categorization. I am not sure if there’s any research that tries to clarify this thing, if any I really like to know.

  • Desmond Glover

    I take the Issac situation as that the world of The Leftovers has supernatural occurrences but some situations can be proven by science also. its no completely supernatural or scientific world. Its Bi

    • So true. When I see videos and photos of shamans doing weird, crazy stuffs, I don’t think they are entirely making it up. On the other hand, not all psychics are the real deal.

  • Here’s a new question:
    Do you think joining the Guilty Remnants can heal Tommy’s problem? I think Tommy’s kind of in the middle, always. That said, I cannot really see Tommy being satisfied in the GR.

    • John Mckinney

      No, I think he’s adrift. I think he’ll remain unsatisfied and disillusioned until he determines what his purpose is and stops allowing others to use him to fulfill theirs.

    • Andiamo

      I think Tommy has always searched for answers (his father), been drawn to meaning or purpose ( protecting Christine). The GR is the opposite of that. They want to show the pointlessness of life and individuality. Tommy is broken, but he has hope. He may lose faith at times, but I don’t see them giving him what he needs long term.

  • Rhythm of Wisdom

    Folks: I really really doubt we’re going to see any exploding bridges or even any direct violence from Meg. Remember the tease with the fake grenade and the school bus? Remember Tommy doused in gasoline and Meg lighting her cigarette and not him? Remember also that the idea of Meg having plastic explosives was only based on “rumors”, which have us thinking that’s she’s moving in the direction of violence. ok, she did order the stoning (which we didn’t see). So we might assume the Miracle GR killed the guy, but haven’t we seen stones used in a weird, seemingly metaphorical way with Erika and Nora throwing stones at their respective homes a few episodes back? Maybe I’m stretching things a bit, but I just don’t think the show is going to turn this storyline into a full physical battle. The GR have always been more about a psychological assault on people’s conciousness. And most of the violence we see them do is inflicted on themselves. Maybe Meg is changing that, but I think that would be a… Wait for it … Departure from the way things go in the show.

    • GR always has has been powerful without physical violence, like the loved one’s dolls. It was rather from those people who were angry about what GR was up to. I think this upcoming incident will surely include physical violence but not all the way from the GR. Good thinking!