Game of Thrones

Game of Thrones Book Club: Spoiler Discussion of “The Watchers on the Wall”


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Josh Wigler and Terri Schwartz discuss Game of Thrones Season 4, Episode 8 in comparison to the book “A Storm of Swords”. Join us each Sunday Night LIVE after the episode for the chance to hear our recap and ask your questions LIVE on the show.

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  • Mr.Hendrix

    I was a little apprehensive when D&D were comparing it to “Blackwater”, but I wasn’t let down in the slightest. I’m not willing to say it’s better than “Blackwater” until I give it a rewatch and get through some reviews, but it’s at least just as good as “Blackwater”.

  • Luke Strobel

    On the recap someone asked if the old blind man was talking about lady olenna…that actually kinda makes sense right?

    • Michael Rivera

      I kinda think so, but some Reddit discussion on Olenna here mentioned that Aemon should be one generation above Olenna’s:

      It’d still be pretty cool, though.

      • Luke Strobel

        I guess he is really really old

        • Brendan Fitzpatrick

          In show timeline it makes sense because they’ve skipped a generation of decendency on the who. In the book, it doesn’t make sense.

          • Luke Strobel

            Good point

  • Felipe Martinez

    What do you guys think about the difference between the books and the show of the motives that drives Jon to talk to Mance? I mean, in the books, he is sent there by Thorne and Slynt to die. When I saw that this was “a plan” in the show, I was like “Are you kidding me? Really?”

    They said it was a bad idea, but still… that was a really dumb move!

    • jon dunn

      It’s Jon’s only move as a leader here. He knows it may be suicide, but they’re going to die anyways otherwise.

  • hint

    Hmm. I stumbled upon this live somehow. And I don’t see the live-chat option for first time. I assume I’m missing some kind of latest update or smth? Any ideas what I need to look at, I’m dumbfounded atm

    • Brendan Fitzpatrick

      I’m not seeing the live chat either. Possible it’s disabled since it’s a shared chatroom across the platform.

  • hint

    About money to pull off stuff…I’m actually baffled how low they keeping GoT budget given it’s popularity compared to some other HBO shows. Yes, it’s super high compared to just about any other TV show out there, but HBO just hasn’t gone full out on it like they have on some of their other past showś which were way waaay less popular during their time. Maybe it’s some current economy reasons or whatnot, but just to throw some random numbers out there:

    The Pacific: 22M per episode
    Band of Brothers: 13M per ep
    Rome: 9M per ep
    Boardwalk Emp pilot: 18M(rumoured to be 50M at the time)
    GoT: 6M per ep

    • belinda

      First I was like WUT with the 18/50m for boardwalk, but then I remember they built the whole set of the boardwalk so I guess it would be a pretty expensive but set cost that they don’t have to do again in the episodes after. So the average for the season is probably similar to GoT’s.

      But yeah, why can’t they ask for a bigger budget if this is HBO’s biggest show currently on its roster (even getting more viewers than Sopranos, I heard)?

  • hint

    Hah the Jon Snow walking off off the grid, I had a friend of mine tell me how it really gave him Jack Bauer vibe 😛

  • Luke Foody

    you guys seemed dissapointed – was my favourite episode of the season and its not even close

  • Josh Wigler
  • susan appleby

    I tried to listen even though this is spoilers for me because i had a long drive. I love Josh but his partner has got to stop talking forever. Once she starts she talks for a long time and weaves around topics. She jumps around and can’t make a very simple statement. It got too disjointed so I turned it off. I gave them so thumbs up on YouTube though, because they are good. She just needs to be more focused and talk a little less

    • jon dunn

      You really shouldn’t listen if you don’t know the spoilers. Just wait a few days to watch the finale unspoiled!

      Terri and Josh ae both great imo

      • susan appleby

        Yes, you are right. I didn’t listen to much of this one so I am not a good judge.

  • sanjayP

    One of my friends that always strategizes about GoT theories with me, we always try to guess what the final scene will be each season. So far, we have been pretty good at guessing, and we both agreed this season the ending would be the dragon dropping bones for Dany to see!

  • Rory

    Another great book club. G.R.R.M needs to write TWOW already so you guys don’t run out of material next season!

    Spacing out these battles over the whole season would have been great.

    On Jon’s parents, it seems weird to me that we’ve barely heard Rhaegar’s name in the show. If R+L=J, show watchers would need all the tourney back story and Rhaegar knowledge for it to be impactful.

  • ScottWC

    One of my favorite theories is that Mance Rayder is Rhaegar Targaryen. How so? Sorcery, somewhat like Mel’s Glamor by using one of the red rubies from Rhaegar’s breast plated armor. After he supposedly died on the Trident one of his rubies went undiscovered.

    It’s a bit crackpot since Mance was already glamored to look like the Lord o’ Bones, and while a glamor on top of a glamor might sound silly and convoluted, I still think it’s a fun theory worth discussing.

    • Rory

      I think people get too bogged down with the “how”. The thing you always have to ask with these theories is “why”. Rhaegar is fighting a war against Robert (while we presume Lyana is having his child). What possible reason would he have to fake his death and go slowly rally a bunch of wildlings against what is quite probably his own son?

      • ScottWC

        When Jon is first introduced to Mance he mentions his ‘father’ is Ned Stark. At that moment we see Mance playing a musicial instrument, which is what Rhaegar was also known for.

        Rhaegar was also obsessed with prophecies such as TPTWP and the three headed dragon, etc.

        And perhaps after Lyanna had died, he thought that by marrying the queen of Westeros (Elia), and the queen of the north (Lyanna), he needed to marry whoever would be the queen of the Wildings (Dalla) to fulfill the three headed dragon prophecy.

        And from what I’ve read he knew a lot about sorcery, so that could explain how he’s been able to use the appearance of Mance Rayder as a cover.

        And he may be appear to be ‘against’ Jon but he never kills him whenever he has the opportunity. Not when he’s first introduced nor when he comes back from the Wall after the intial battle from episode 9 this season.

        • Rory

          That’s interesting. But it’s very far fetched. He may not have tried to kill Jon but he certainly left him in serious danger. It was very lucky that Jon didn’t die. Pretty risky if Jon is one of the dragon’s heads. Are you also implying that Rhaegar is in league with Varys/Illyrio in housing Aegon?

          There’s also the House of the Undying vision. When Aegon is born, Rhaegar basically says there is one more child to come. We assume he means Rhaenys, Aegon and another (their names are significant to this). Are you saying he was referring to Jon, Aegon and the wildling prince?

          • ScottWC

            If (and it’s a big if) Rhaegar is still alive, and also happens to be Mance in a glamored disguise, I don’t think he’d be in league with Varys/Illyrio and I doubt he would even know they existed.

            I’m one of the people that think Aegon is a blackfyre.

            But, if this happens to be true, I do think Jon learns about it and helps fulfill the prophecy that Rhaegar started by marrying Val and taking the Iron Throne with their first born son not far behind.

          • Rory

            Hmm it’s a fun theory. If it were true, what do you make of the vision in the house of the undying? And how do you think Rhaegar faked his death?

          • ScottWC

            At the Tower of Joy, Rhaegar was with Lyanna and three of the kingsguard as she was giving birth to Jon.

            Before Ned and company showed up, Rhaegar used sorcery to glamor himself and Arthur Dayne. He didn’t want to leave Lyanna’s side so he used the glamor to look like Dayne and vice versa, enabling Dayne to fight Robert as Rhaegar on the Trident.

            Without Dawn, Dayne as Rhaegar was killed by Robert.

            Rhaegar revealed himself at the Tower of Joy before Ned and Howland Reed had the opportunity to kill him.

            Lyanna asked Ned to make promises to her before she died: protect her baby and protect Rhaegar.

            Rhaegar takes the form of Mance Rayder and agrees to go to the Wall with Ned’s brother Benjen.

            A hole in this theory is from one of Dany’s visions from the House of Undying: a dying prince with rubies flying from his armor whispering the name of a woman with his last breath.

            If it’s Rhaegar then he’s obviously saying Lyanna’s name. That’s the most logical conclusion, right?

            But wouldn’t it have made more sense for Rhaegar to not leave Lyanna’s side at the Tower of Joy?

            That is what’s perplexing me.

            If it was Arthur Dayne as Rhaegar at the Trident was it he who was whispering the name of a woman? Did he love anyone in particular?