Game of Thrones

Game of Thrones S7, Ep #7 Deep Dive | The Dragon and the Wolf

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Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 7 Deep Dive Podcast for “The Dragon and the Wolf” from August 27th, 2017

Josh Wigler (@roundhoward) and Rob Cesternino (@robcesternino) are back for one final ‘Game of Thrones’ Deep Dive Podcast That Was Promised, breaking down all the biggest developments from the finale of Game of Thrones season 7, episode 7, “The Dragon and the Wolf”.

Please feel free to leave your comments/questions/feedback in the comments section below, or tweet us using the hashtag #PSRecaps. Join us again next week for more in-depth coverage and ‘Game of Thrones’ analysis!

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  • DamienX207

    Thanks, dudes, for making this happen (almost) all season, even with Josh’s busy schedule (and yet he somehow finds plenty of time for Defenders recaps..?) 🙂

    With that said, it sounds like Rob is too tired/cranky from traveling for RHAPCon. Tormund was clearly shown standing on the precipice of the wall NEXT to the part that fell! C’mon man!

    And no, we didn’t get complete clarity on the Sansa-Arya reconciliation, but of course they needed to hide that for the big reveal — pretty easy to postulate that Sansa went to Bran with the knife after their tiff in Arya’s bedroom and he cleared everything up off-screen AFTER that argument — could have been clarified with a throwaway line at the tribunal (Sansa: “It might have worked if I hadn’t talked to Bran” yadda yadda). But thank you Josh for giving a more positive spin on the Littlefinger death, which admittedly could have been better but (IMO) was SO appropos for the character’s blind spot to his object of desire in Cat/Sansa. In any case, it certainly wasn’t the worst part of the episode (I’m looking at you, sexpositional-incest-reveal).

    Anyway, I’m just nitpicking you guys like we’re all prone to doing, love you both (and Stephen of course)! 🙂

    • J-me not Hi-me

      +1 on your comment that Tormund and Beric were shown on the precipice.

      +1 to Rob seeming cranky too. I hope you get a vacation soon sir. 🙂

      • DamienX207

        To be fair, I’ve traveled for work and then come home to the abandoned wife and kids, so I can definitely relate. (One of the many reasons why I love RHAP so much) 🙂

        • J-me not Hi-me

          No judgement, I get cranky if I don’t eat for too long. 🙂

    • belinda

      But that is exactly the issue. The show sacrificed important personal growth scenes for Sansa and Arya (or Littlefinger for that matter even) for the sake of the surprise factor. Which is great for casuals, but insulting to anyone who watches the show for a little bit of depth. Once again it goes back to the whole idea that this season has become a lot more popcorny rather than what the show used to be, a gourmet meal that can be savored.

      • DamienX207

        I think that’s all fair, though I’d posit that GoT has always been too popcorn-y for most hardcore fans’ tastes (e.g. nothing extraordinarily different about this season). Personally I prefer to savor an overall enjoyable (& occasionally popcorn-y) show for what it is and understand that the constraints of TV production don’t always allow the inclusion of every scene that we might have liked to see, while sometimes by necessity including things that some viewers would have preferred to not see (incest-sexposition, personally). Like I said, nitpicking is fun; I just prefer podcasts where the baby isn’t thrown out with the Blackwater (& again, this is one of the many reasons why I love RHAP so much). 🙂

        • belinda

          the popcorny-ess was far more in this season than season’s past – and why even a postshowrecap podcast – which tends to be a little nicer than other more GoT focused podcast – had to comment on it because the number of issues this season has been overwhelming, in every episode (whereas with past seasons, there are issues, but you get like a few major ones in the entire season, not in every episode when the show demands you ignore them) It’s an issue when people aren’t even looking to nitpick but notice the issues, because there has been so many. Like my mother who is entirely a casual viewer – even she noticed some of the weird stuff that didn’t make sense, and she barely even remembers half the people’s names on the show.

  • TrentC

    Yeah there’s no way they bring Tormund back from the brink of death one episode and then kill him in some vague, offscreen death next episode. Besides, he still has to make sweet love to Brienne.

    Lots of negativity on the net about Arya and Sansa having their fake conversations with no one listening at the door. Of course they did, how would they know when and where Littlefinger was lurking/hiding each minute? They had to sell the argument no matter where they were.

    Thanks for all of the Game of Thrones coverage you guys. Great podcasts for a great show.

  • BearMustaine

    That ep was a huge pile of cheesy Meh…I’m so over this poor man’s version of Ice and Fire….just release the book already and put us out of our misery.

  • Oli Ant

    I disagree with you Josh about the redundancy of Jon lineage reveal. Many people that watch only the show and don’t search for any information on the net didn’t get who was Jon father after the Tower of Joy. At work, I had several colleagues asking me about that. So the average viewer needs some explanation.

    • J-me not Hi-me

      Thank you for saying this, I was wondering if the Unsullied viewers had a different view.

  • Oli Ant

    As for Arya and Sansa I think that all that fighting was real (way too long by the way). Is it possible that Sansa realised what she needed to do at the end of her last conversation with Littlefinger? He pushed her to investigate Arya motives to kill her and the conclusion was that Arya was doing that to become Lady of Winterfell. At that point, I wonder if Sansa realised that Arya wasn’t the enemy mainly because being a lady has always been something Arya hated. The rest, of course, happened off camera (conversations between the 3 siblings….).

  • MustardCannon

    Do you guys think Jon had that conversation with Theon about always being a Stark and Ned always being a better father to him then his real one was JUST so Jon can have that same mentality when he hears the news about being a Targarian (sp?) later next season? I hope he keeps the Stark name or at least keeps his first name Jon. I’m not calling him Aegon… Thanks for another season of excellent coverage!

  • SaraMadridista

    I didn’t listen yet, but I have a question. The way tyrion and cersei scene ended was a tad suspicious.
    So question, is tyrion in with plan with cersei? Is that why he was so upset when he saw that “new alliance” of Jon and Dane?
    I mean this could fit in well with next season.
    I still think littlefinger dying is somehow a poetic representation of how the politics game in GOT is dead too and they way he died too show how politics is taking the back seat for the magic dragons and zombies, Cersei is only connection left to what made this show this great.

    • CamPT

      Varys is still around.

  • J-me not Hi-me

    I agree with everything y’all are saying about the Winterfell plot. Littlefinger getting killed was incredibly satisfying, but it would have been even more satisfying if he’d actually been interesting this year.

  • J-me not Hi-me

    As far as the army of the undead destroying Winterfell…I mean, is that where they march next? Or do they head South to King’s Landing?

  • Great Got deep dive guys. RE: Sansa and Arya. I think that Sansa actually only realized Arya wasn’t against her when Little finger talked her backwards and she landed on Arya acting aggressive towards her because she wanted to be lady of winterfell. Sansa knows Arya would NEVER want that. I think all the tension between them up until that point was real. After all? Sansa admitted in front of that entire room that she’s a little slow.

    • Oli Ant

      Agreed.

  • Jeffrey Baker

    We didn’t see the end of the discussion between Cersei and Tyrion. Is it possible she convinced him to switch back to the Lannister side? He tells Cersei that he loved her children. She hints to Tyrion that she is pregnant. His behavior at the end of the episode is a little suspicious.

  • Michelle McHugh

    I was also confused by Sansa and Arya uniting to kill Littlefinger. On rewatch, noticed more comments from Bran, and at one point Littlefinger said of the accusations, “No one was there” as a defense that these were lies, and there was a shot including Bran. Plus, didn’t Sansa sit down with Bran earlier in the episode sitting by the tree asking him to open up and tell her what she didn’t understand? She had the scoop in that trial on every betrayal that only Bran knew. He was responsible for them seeing the truth.

  • Claire

    Thanks guys for your hardwork this season (and Stephen as well).

    I actually love the scene when Littlefinger was killed. I get that maybe the producers wanted to blindside the audience so they didn’t show a lot. What I don’t like is the storyline that led to Littlefinger’s death. I just felt it was so irrelevant to the big picture.

    I don’t know if it’s a stretch but I can also see Beric sacrificing himself, maybe he revives Tormund (if Tormund did die) before his last breath..

    There are a lot of people complaining about the pacing of this season but I think the main problem is that there’s just so much stuff that wasn’t shown and just felt rushed.

    And maybe it’s too early to think about the next season but the final season only has 6 episodes which means so many things are going to happen at once. Also, Game of Thrones has so many prophecies that still need to happen. What about the prophecy of 3 treasons (Once for blood, once for gold, once for love)? We didn’t exactly know if those already happened did we?

  • Renee Margaux

    Hi guys! After listening to your deep diver for S7E7 finale,
    your comments re am & Bran’s discussion about Jon’s father I disagree with.

    The show runners cannot presume the casual watcher knows that Rhaegar
    Targaryen is Jon’s father. To the casual watcher, all they know is that Ned
    Stark is not the father and that Leanna is his mother. I feel that the
    conversation was needed to further along uncovering Jon’s parents.
    Love the show!

  • Ben Brown

    The one issue I have with the season is the fact that no one seems to question how/why Jon left the night’s watch and broke his vow (since they aren’t aware of his death and Resurrection) especially since other characters acknowledge that they know he was the lord commander.

    This is most jarring to me with Cersei when she says that she would believe Jon if he agreed to stay out of the future war. Cersei says that she’ll trust the word of Ned Stark’s son but seemingly ignores the fact that as far as she knows he broke his vow and left the watch.

  • belinda

    Overall, I just feel like the season has been very sloppy, which has affected the quality of the show. When so many issues and questions can be answered by “Because the plot needed it to be so”, there are problems in the writing. Hopefully next season can be better, but with even less episodes, and this season has shown it suffers from not having enough episodes, I’m not too optimistic unfortunately, given what the showrunners have said, which was basically ‘hey if you’re not excusing the very real writing issues, then you’re not watching the show right’. The show seems to favor the spectacle over what it’s best at – sometimes 2 people sitting in a room having a conversation is way more powerful, way more tense, way more engaging and entertaining, than seeing some special effects battle or ice dragons, and I can’t see the showrunners going away from that in the final 6 episodes.

    However, it does make me long for the books even more, because I would like to know what the actual ending (and how we get there) is rather than whatever we will see in the final season.

  • Joey

    Maybe the Arya vs Briene scene was a foreshadowing of an Arya vs the Mountain scene.