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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice | Review Podcast

Henry Cavill as Superman and Ben Affleck as Batman in "Dawn of Justice"

Henry Cavill as Superman and Ben Affleck as Batman in “Dawn of Justice”

Listen to the podcast:

Tell me, do you bleed? You will, after you listen to two hours of conversation all about Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice!

Josh Wigler (@roundhoward) is joined by Kevin Mahadeo (@kevmahadeo) to talk about the new DC Comics movie, the first live-action meet-up of the Man of Steel and the Bat of Gotham, and easily one of the most divisive big-budget blockbusters in recent times. Josh and Kevin dive deep into the back story of the film and how it came together, what the stakes are for the DC films moving forward, why so much is riding on Batman v Superman, and how that’s a challenge given the film’s negative critical reaction — despite strong box office.

After delving into the history of the film, Josh and Kevin drill down into all the big events from the movie, including the story between Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, the pros and cons of Ben Affleck’s Batman, the presence of Justice League members like Wonder Woman and the Flash, Zack Snyder’s original plans for Jesse Eisenberg, and much more.


** Zack Snyder on the secret Jimmy Olsen cameo
** Michael Shannon weighs in on Batman vs Superman


** Marvel’s Daredevil
** Marvel’s Jessica Jones
** Deadpool Movie Podcast
** Star Wars Podcast
** Avengers: Age of Ultron Podcast 

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  • Tim Forbes

    I wish you could’ve spoken to someone who liked/loved the movie as well on the podcast.

    -I think a lot of people are hating the film because it was not what they expected or had in their mind (like Kevin said he had his own plot written in his mind.) I love that this movie had its own vision of the characters but I think it took a lot of people by surprise.

    -The Marvel movies all follow the exact same formula (literally in every single movie) and I think because this movie tries something new and different, it is not what people are used to and it makes people hate it. While I think calling people ‘Marvel Zombies’ is unfair and insulting, I think there is a serious point there about the Disney/Marvel machine.

    -Comparing this movie to Transformers is ridiculously insulting (not you guys but I have heard it a lot elsewhere too).

    -Saying than hour and a half of nothing happens is unfair.

    -Batman is mad because Superman killed a lot of civilians. Batman only goes after the mercenaries that are working with Luthor.

    -Batman has killed people in a lot of the movies. He never actually shots anyone with a proper gun. I think the only time he shoots someone in the movie is the KGBeast character (or rather his gas tank).

    -Why would Superman be smiling? I don’t think that would fit with the rest of the movie or the world it is set in. The traditional Superman heroic moments have to be earned when people are embracing Superman (maybe happens after he is resurrected in Justice League).

    -I loved the Martha scene. I can’t believe how dense people are being about this scene. They do not join the same side because their mothers have the same name. Batman recognises that Superman is not just an alien destroying the world and sees his humanity for the first time. He also sees himself as the same as the man who killed his parents at that moment.

    -Laurence Fishbourne says ‘The Batman’ at one point.

    -I really liked all of the movie after the Batman/Superman fight. I had more problems with the beginning of the movie at first.

    -I didn’t mind Lex Luthor but I get why people have issues with him. I like his character the more I think about it.

    -I hated that Jimmy Olsen was in the movie and then was killed in the first few minutes.

    -I thought Doomsday was pretty cool. I liked that they had the guts to kill Superman in their second movie (I have felt that the Marvel movies don’t really have any stakes.) I don’t care at all about how the Hulk comes back as I felt that come out of nowhere in the last Avengers movie,

    -The fun moments felt more earned in this than the Marvel movies where they have too many one-liners, often in completely inappropriate places.

    -I also recommend seeing this more than once like the last positive email said. I was very disappointed that you guys did not discuss Trevor’s very well-worded email more and focussed on complaing about the nuclear bomb scene. I completely agree with him that the movie correctly shows more than it tells you.

    -The Batman v Superman R-rated cut was made ages before Deadpool came out. So, it had nothing to do that as Kevin was suggesting.

    Sorry for the long comment but I wanted to respond to the podcast while I was listening to it. I feel like a lot of the criticism is unfair and can be combatted if you look at the movie closer. Enjoyed the podcast for the most part.

    • @Wharfrat1625

      You make some interesting points in here, but I am curious about one specifically. Is it actually gutsy to kill Superman when we know he isn’t dead? I appreciate what you’re saying about the stakes in Marvel films, but we know Justice league is coming and that he is in no actual jeopardy, don’t we? Even viewers who don’t know that kind of meta stuff see the closing shot that indicates he is very much alive.

      Not trying to be a hater bud, glad you enjoy the film!

      • Trevor Douglas Allen

        Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if the studio had asked that dirt rising bit be put in because they feel the general audience needs to know he’s coming back. Sadly, marketing has shown that the larger audience need a lot of hand holding & need to know there known character will be back so they’ll see the next film.

      • Tim Forbes

        Don’t worry I don’t think you are a ‘hater’ haha. Regarding the fact that we know Superman isn’t dead, I think more casual audiences don’t necessarily know about Justice League and I saw a lot of people in my cinema leaving still thinking that Superman was dead. Although, you do have a good point.

    • Trevor Douglas Allen

      Thanks, for the compliment. You have very good arguments. I probably should have read the other comments before posting my own, because I’m just echoing some of your own. Though, there were some I didn’t write on.

  • Charles Bikle

    i agree with Kev – Batman CASUALLY using a gun and killing are big, BIG departures – too, too out of character. Superman using a gun makes more sense.

  • Charles Bikle

    Josh made a good point about WB not having their own “Kevin Feige”. They have Zac Snyder, who is turning out to be the “Reverse-Feige”

    • @Wharfrat1625

      Feige has had some incredible insight in terms of steering that behemoth of a ship. I honestly think DC/WB should be desperately scouring the earth to find their version of him ASAP. Paging Kevin Smith?

      • Tim Forbes

        I feel like Geoff Johns is being set up to be the Kevin Feige of DC. He makes a lot of the appearances at things.

  • Charles Bikle

    I feel that WB took the wrong road in filming all their recent DC movies in “Nolan-Vision” – not every movie has to have the same dreary look as a Batman movie – their should be some contrast.

    If WB just copied how Marvel Studios does things (including post credit scenes), they’d be in much, MUCH better shape; they’re really making things more difficult for themselves than they need to be.

  • Bijan Nowroozian

    I love your guys’ podcasts but this went way off the rails into negativity. There are many points to make about this movie in both perspectives but this was more of a bashfest from a DC purist who’d hate anything that isn’t straight from the comics.

    I’d love it if Josh were to recap this movie with someone like Rob or basically anyone coming from a non-die hard perspective. I think the discussion would be more fare and less nitpicky.

    Anyways, I still appreciate the discussion provided. Thanks again guys!

  • Derek_Sye

    Haven’t seen this yet, but the reviews have me convinced I will enjoy it. They seem to boil down to:

    1. Batman shouldn’t kill people – I don’t care.
    2. Comic book movies should be light – I don’t need every movie to be a comedy.

  • Craig

    The best part of this movie was the end when Jesse Eisenberg made that RHAP reference with the dinging bell. I mean what else could that mean (seriously tell me)?

  • @Wharfrat1625

    I enjoyed this immensely. I mean the podcast, not the film. For those who did enjoy the movie itself I’d say, “Awesome, neat!”. Seriously though, if you dug the flick that’s cool. Just because it’s not a well crafted story doesn’t mean you aren’t entitled to the joy you felt watching characters you enjoy on screen. I enjoy watching the Star Wars prequels, but that doesn’t make them well constructed movies. Don’t try and fight some noble battle to convince the naysayers otherwise.

    As I’ve gotten older, things like Walking Dead and the X-Men franchise
    have mitigated the kind of furious nerd rage I felt in my younger days when something was released, and it wasn’t a 100% literal interpretation of
    the source material. I’m cool with new visions of beloved characters,
    but Kev was spot on in his criticisms of Luther and Batman specifically. Those characters have very defined traits that embody who they are and more importantly WHAT THEY MEAN to their fans. Innovating a new rendition of them on screen should not entail abandoning those core traits. We don’t need Lex Luther if you want Jessie Eisenberg to play some Joker like mentally ill scientist. You can in fact, give us original characters if you want to break convention DC. Forcing this giant franchise machine forward in a single 150 minute block with their most commercially viable characters, and than slogging it into the ground with a fragmented irrational plot, and incongruous cameos was a tragic mis-step. They could have very easily followed up Man of Steel with some quality stand alone works on the lesser known characters. And I would have appreciated it if the headline conflict of Batman V Superman wasn’t resolved in such a ridiculously superficial fashion in the final 10% of the film. Right, sorry. Rant over.

    Anyway good podcast boys. I really think DC/WB needs to slow down and stop chasing that sweet sweet Marvel Cinematic Universe they so desperately want for their own. They should be emphasizing the differences in their properties, diversifying the directorial pool, and showing enough confidence in their core audience to take proper time releasing character focused cohesive films. I truly feel like this movie could have worked if they hadn’t tried to shoe horn 13 different comic runs into it. It’s like they literally have no confidence in their ability to take their time building stories people will inevitably go see when they are done.

    • Brendan Fitzpatrick

      I can’t wait for you and me to talk about this movie in person in a couple weeks… :-) I had 0 problem with Batman killing people btw, he may not kill in the comics, but evevery single bm movie, he kills people. Maybe not directly with a gun, but people have 100% died due to his actions, in every film. So, I’d say to that extent Batman in this movie was very true to the Bats that his been established on film to this point. My major problems from the film, are the same I have with Ultron. They just shoved so much in to the movie and plot, that it was a mess, and unnecessarily so. A lot of dialogue was forced. I wish Josh and Kev had picked up on and delved in to the Lex character more, and the major point that he’s not THE LEX we have know or were expecting, which I really liked actually. It’s heavily implied/Stated that he is the SON of the Lex we thought we were getting and have gotten in the past. We have to remember, this is DarkNight Rises timeline, which is farther in the future, with an older Batman, than we have gotten before. So of course, we wouldn’t have the usual Lex. My own interpretation, was that the Eisenberg’s Lex was a Clone/Son of his father, and quite likely, insane due to this. Cheers.


      • @Wharfrat1625

        Haha. We will pontificate in depth in NY. It is known. And I like this idea of Eisenberg as son of Lex. That got past me in my watching. So I used to have this beagle as a kid. When he got all fired up and started running full tilt he would always get his back feet out past his front ones and inevitably tangle them up on each other, tripping himself. That little dog would would tumble into this rolling dog ball with all his momentum behind him and crash into a heap. That’s the best analogy I have for what I felt like happened here. The studio got so over excited, and had so much momentum behind them they tripped all over themselves. They tried to do to much to quickly. I didn’t absolute hate the film the way I hated that last Fantastic 4. It wasn’t an unmitigated disaster, but I do think they really stumbled. And I know I’m in the minority, but Ultron really exceeded my expectations. It’s not my favorite comic movie, but I do think it was the perfectly executed comic film for a whole bunch of reasons. Anyway, I’ll stop before I put down 10k words of my rambling opinions and self absorbed antecdotes here. Can’t wait to see you In NY man. It’s coming up reaaaal quick now!

  • Matthew Bok

    I saw this yesterday and as a non comic book guy here are my thoughts:

    It was alright. It wasn’t great, it wasn’t terrible. It was better than Age of Ultron, if for no other reason as there is absolutely no sense of danger or consequence to the Marvel Universe. The opening sequence of AoU shows my major problem with the Marvel movies: there is no danger. Not for a second is any one of the major characters in any danger and they don’t take a huge firefight at all seriously. They’re just laughing and goofing off amongst the battle with not a care in the world. The basic premise of Batman’s issue with Superman (and a big driving part of the plot) is holding Superman accountable for what happened in Man of Steel where thousands upon thousands of people would have died. In this universe Tony Stark would be in prison for all of the deaths and material damage that he has caused.

    Jessie Eisenberg was by far the worst part of the movie. He reminded me of Rachel from Big Brother in that he was a caricature of a person, not the least bit believable.

  • Trevor Douglas Allen

    When it comes to iconic characters we can all have different aspects that we deem important, that “must” remain in all these interpretations. Personally, the Superman that I have enjoyed from the comics remains in both “Man of Steel” and “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice”. With that, I think you’re right that this movie doesn’t portray your Superman.

    Batman is mad at Superman for his involvement in killing innocents; Batman only kills criminals which is explained by Alfred’s “that’s how it starts” dialogue. Also, Batman has killed in every Batman film except “Batman and Robin”, so you must believe the Nolan films because they also “failed the character”. At least this Batman was given a story to show why he’s been driven to killing, where the others had him say he doesn’t kill then go on to kill people. Michael Keaton is #1 because he probably killed the most people, right? Clooney the worst because he’s the only movie Batman who hasn’t killed, right?

    I’m not much for fight scenes and action, so for me that “boring talking” is what I look at. I love what they did, as I felt it developed the characters; the world around them; and working toward the action.

    Wonder Woman was the stand out for me as well, but I was primed for that as a huge Wonder Woman fan. I didn’t know how others would react to her, and was so happy when seeing the movie with some family members that my little brothers firsts response was to ask if they were making a Wonder Woman movie.

    I was extremely thrown off by Luthor upon first viewing, but after thinking about it and viewing it again I very much enjoyed him. The first scene with the Jolly Rancher where he shows his dominance I found truly fantastic. As a follower of comic writer Gail Simone on Twitter, I think she put it best in saying Lex Luthor was always a bit of a bland villain. She says that this is the first Luthor to actually frighten her.

    The only thing that bothers me now is the spear mcguffin at the end. It’s too back and forth and putting Lois into a damsel in distress position (for the 3rd time) that felt very unnecessary.

    Typed all of this as I was listening, didn’t expect my sort of feedback to be read out due to length (not as long as what I’ve said so far). There were more jokes in BvS than MoS; the theaters I was in laughed at quite a few point (sure, it’s not constant quipping) and my father sure came out saying it was dark but also funny.

    I think things are looking great for “Civil War”, because even though there are a lot of people who haven’t liked “BvS” it’s had a very strong opening weekend and it’s getting a largely positive response from the general public. “Civil War” looks like it’s going to be huge, plus we know the people who hated “BvS” are looking forward to shoving it’s greatness in “BvS’ fans faces. I want all these movies to be great and after “Batman v Superman” I continue to be optimistic (in spite of you lot *points* YOU)!

  • aardvarkratnik

    Why does it take over two hours to review a movie? I got bored and gave up.

  • Reynaldo Hernandez Aponte

    ” Explain Crisis to me”. ” Oh boy”. Indeed.

  • SJ

    I don’t know if you’ll see this, as I’m a bit late to listening to this podcast, but I want to thank you both for the 2+ hours of entertainment that I didn’t find in the actual movie. I agree with a lot of the points that you both made and can’t wait to listen to more movie podcasts. And I don’t think you ever need to apologize for the run time of these podcasts – I personally love having something to listen to while doing stuff around the house.